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Re: [ox-en] Re: Open Money?



Hi Ernie!

Yesterday ernie yacub wrote:
Hi Keith, other open-money fans, all!

Hi Stefan.  Thanks for making this forum available and inviting us in to
talk about money.

...and Free Software :-) .

Actually I guess you need a relative limited community to make your
social glue work. I guess this is one of the things interesting in
LETS: the social glue they provide to otherwise atomized indiiduals.

In the sense that LETS/cc is a medium of exchange which enables
relationship, i would say you are correct

But that's the problem. Exchange only sets up an abstract relationship
between people. The other person is relevant to me only insofar as I
can do exchange with her. I think this is the fundament for the
atomization.

and i hope you will agree that we
are all atomized individuals living in dysfunctional societies.

Fully agreed. So I guess we're both interested in overcoming this pity
situation. I.e. we need to find means to stop the atomization and we
find means to set up more functional societies. Sounds good.

One big problem lies in our general inability to think
outside the box of national currency systems.

I'd add that our biggest problem lies in our general inability to
think outside the box of exchange systems at all. Can you do that? If
not, why? Actually I think this is the most interesting question at
all.

If you mean getting along without money, that is always an option

Wonderful. There is common ground :-) .

and will
certainly evolve over time as some networks that start with a cc
progressively do without - it's up to the agreements that people freely
make in their circuits of exchange.

I think this is difficult to achieve when you're already thinking
society in terms of exchange.

That's what I particularly like in Free Software. It simply started
and people didn't care about exchange. So they set up a system without
exchange (as others did before in other fields but they were not as
successful on a societal level). I think it's far easier to achieve a
society where exchange is even counterproductive if you start from a
germ form which already embodies these principles.

By having repressive forces like police, courts and jails,
or sometime armies they have the possibility to keep people from say
copying banknotes. One major aspect of this is that they are able to
keep money a scarce resource.

That's the nub of the problem - normal money is scarce and getting scarcer
in many parts of the world.  Because it is scarce, it is expensive and
debilitating.  So what's the solution?  We say, free the money, use your
own - why be short of measure if you need to measure something?

The scarcity issue seems to be *the* key factor. I replied to that in
another mail. However, another point here:

Open money is not a scarce commodity,

Ahm, what? A money which is not scarce is anything but money. If I can
create money by free will out of nothing than what would it be good
for at all?

When you create the money in your network or community, you issue a promise
to redeem that money at the rates you set.  Your reputation in that circuit
of exchange is dependent upon you making good on the promise.  Your money
is your word.

So my creation of money is limited by the amount of reputation I have.
And this reputation is scarce. However, that's the basis for a
currency to be accepted by someone and so this is not really a new
point but already mentioned in the other mail.

and cannot be hoarded or used as capital.

Capital is money which is used to create more money. For that aim
hoarding is counterproductive anyway. I can't see why this is not
possible with open money. Why for instance is wage labor impossible
with LETS / open money?

Nobody said it was impossible.  Think of it as money.  If i want your money
i will work for you.  If i don't, i won't.

Ah. And what's about surplus value drawn from that work? After all the
surplus value is the source of profit and that makes all the way to
capitalism as we know it. Hmm...


						Mit Freien Grüßen

						Stefan

_______________________
http://www.oekonux.org/


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