Re: [ox-en] Germ of a new form of society ? [Philosophical Investigation]
- From: "Niall Douglas" <s_fsfeurope2 nedprod.com>
- Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 18:21:20 -0000
On 1 Feb 2004 at 4:34, Adam Moran wrote:
Greek philosophy is good for gaining an interest, but it's riddled
with logical typing errors. As Bertrand Russell said, most of the
questions they posed are solvable with rigourous application of
logic. I would recommend reading it once or twice, then moving on.
I like the 'typing errors' metaphor, and Russell's 'logic' metaphor
also ;) - simply inspired !
Erm, it wasn't intentional - nor do I even get it now! :)
... But since you think there is something in Russell, no doubt there
is. I shall give him further thought. Imagine that he was alive today,
and on Oeukonux - would unicode be up to the job !
I should emphasise that I have rarely read the original works of any
philosopher apart oddly enough, from Plato and Aristotle. While
Russell's Principia Mathematica has been either praised or slated
since it was written, I think I consider it (and the men who wrote
it) important for only two reasons: (i) Incompleteness of number and
(ii) that rigorous logic rationalises all problems.
The key with point (ii) is that logic won't solve problems. As
Russell found, if you break everything into steps of logic you
recurse back onto yourself - a Hofstadler G.E.B. "strange loop" but
more accurately a fractal, or chaotic strange attractor.
Hmm, and yours was the only reply :(
I know, this surprised me too. If its any consolation I don't get many
replies either :( - I got two replies to my CRISmas Carol and they
both can be summed up with one phrase: "Same old same-old".
Imagine what would happen if someone built some software designed
around maximising its ecosystemic effect?
What are the boundaries of the ecosystem in your mind ?
None. Just lots of ecosystems inside ecosystems within other
ecosystems which is as the universe is: fully recursive.
... and another ...
What are the boundaries of the ecosystem in my mind ?
Also none. Indeed my mind and your mind are inextricably linked and
the same, but also totally separate and different. The inevitable
consequence of recursion :)
If you look at biological life, wherever complexity exceeds a
certain amount, new forms of order emerge. Actually this is also
true of the quantum mechanical substructure of the universe - this
universe and all matter is merely an emergent strand of new order
from increasing complexity. Thus it is inevitable that with time,
new and ever more complex species of life/order/creation of more
complexity will emerge.
I like this bit also.
What always surprises me is when people say this is not scientific
fact. Not only is it obvious from quantum mechanics, scientists like
Heisenburg and Bateson have been stating it for decades now. It's
just our perceptual abilities haven't caught up yet.
This is why it'll be interesting to see how people handle software
designed around some very odd (for them) principles.
Cheers,
Niall
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