Re: [ox-en] Re: Alternative exchange systems furthering GPL society?
- From: Michael Bouwens <michelsub2003 yahoo.com>
- Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 19:52:05 -0800 (PST)
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At the end of the feudal phase religious sects of all kinds spread
like wildfire. Basically they tried to save the old system by applying
some reforms to it. However, as we know the new era swept them all
away so much that today it is even hard to know about them. Trying to
save the exchange system somehow to me looks very similar to those
sects.
<<I HOPE YOU are right, but my hunch is that actually capitalism took over a lot of the old feudal system.
Also a new era does not solve the problems of the previous one
directly but by transforming and overcoming them on a new level /
synthesis. This new level / synthesis is probably the hardest thing to
recognize.
<< On the one hand, you say this, and I'd be happy to read what this synthesis is, but in most of your interventions one has the impression that you are happy for DFS to just grow on, organically (aka germ form theory), and in the meantime, you are happy to work for a capitalist firm and to leave things pretty much as they are. For example, you never reply to my query on a transitional strategy?
For instance if you think of the problem of religious freedom. The
type and branch of religion in a certain area *is* a major aspect if
the whole society is based on religion. Thus something like the
30-year war (30jähriger Krieg) or the crusades are completely
possible. Capitalism solved this problem by making religion a minor
aspect. Only when capitalism is on the decline this old religious
stuff comes up again just because people seek orientation when worlds
are falling apart. In this case they seek orientation in concepts
which on a societal level are simply outdated.
Please note that I'm *not* underestimating spiritual aspects of
humans. I only say that on a societal level there time is over.
<< I AGREE. Here is for info, how John Heron summarises the main tenets of spiritual life in our times:
(1) It is developmentally holistic, involving diverse major lines of human development; and the holism is both within each line and as between the lines. Prime value is put on relational lines, such as gender, psychosexuality, emotional and interpersonal skills, communicative competence, peer communion, morality, human ecology, supported by the individualistic, such as contemplative competence, physical fitness.
(2) It is psychosomatically holistic, embracing a fully embodied and vitalized way of being.
(3) It is epistemologically holistic, embracing many ways of knowing: knowing by presence with, by intuiting significant form and process, by conceptualizing, by practising. Such holistic knowing is intrinsically dialogic, action- and inquiry-oriented. It is fulfilled in peer-to-peer participative inquiry, and the participation is both epistemic and political.
(4) It is ontologically holistic, open to the manifest (nature, culture and the subtle), to immanent life and transcendent mind. To relate (4) back to (3), there can be experiential knowing by presence with the manifest, the immanent and the transcendent, either relatively independently of each other or in full integration.
(5) It is focussed on worthwhile practical purposes that promote a flourishing humanity-cum-ecosystem.
(6) It embraces peer-to-peer relations and participatory forms of decision-making. The latter in particular can be seen as a radical discipline in relational spirituality, burning up a lot of the privatized ego.
(7) It honours the gradual emergence and development of peer-to-peer forms of association and practice.
(8) It affirms the role of both initiating hierarchy, and spontaneously surfacing and rotating hierarchy among the peers, in such emergence.?
Ok. If it not furthering peer production we should look for
improvements here - right? What is the basic question again? How could
those people which are somehow excluded from the main monetary system
can be reintegrated?
<< HERE IS how the complentary currencies are useful. In the current system, take any village with no money and a surplus of unemployed, there is almost no way to get out of this vicious circle. You can't work before you have the money, that is the current design. But in the new designs, the act of service creats a time dollar, which you then can use. The human effort immediately creates the currency of exchange, and there's no dependence on artificially-scarce money.
BRAKTEATEN MONEY IN MEDIEVAL EUROPE (dr. Kennedy)
[...]
This is one of the myths the alternative money scene loves so much.
The main error is that the example can not simply be transferred to a
developed capitalism and the conditions you find there. Also the facts
were not really as they are told in this myth and most of all the
phenomenons described were not as single-reasoned as they are told.
<<DO YOU HAVE more information on this??
Michel
Mit Freien Grüßen
Stefan
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