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Re: [ox-en] Bye folks [u]



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Geert,
   
  I do not think that floss fits 'perfectly' into capitalism. The different P2P practices can be used by certain sectors of capitalism, while endangering others, but also create tensions and have an associated potential for political and social change. I do not believe into any automaticity of this change, but what is of interest is to identifty the 'transcendent' potential of it. Radical P2P, i.e. the combination of peer production, governance, and new property modes, is a deep challenge to the system.
   
  Oekonux theory should go from a general statement about this potential, to a specific engagement with the details of it; I agree that this is lacking sometimes,
   
  See http://www.ctheory.net/articles.aspx?id=499 for a more elaborate yet succinct thesis on this.
   
  Michel

"Geert Lovink [c]" <geert xs4all.nl> wrote:
  The attempt of Stefan Merten to change the subject line of this 
dialogue I guess summarizes pretty well what has been going here for a 
long time: a founder/moderator maintaining an iron grip on a project, 
not possible of letting go, covering himself up endlessly with postive 
sounding, legal and polically correct rethoric.

The problem is of course bigger than that. There is an interesting 
Oexonux theory and a dirty reality out there--and the gap between these 
two is becoming bigger by the day. Yet, this cannot really be 
discussed. The debate are becoming less and less and are going in 
circles exactly because the definitions might be in principle right... 
but they do not explain anything much, nor do they connect to a radical 
political practice in the field of floss (which is what really should 
be a worry).

The fact that floss perfectly fits into capitalism is indeed too bad, 
strange, to be expected, very good... yes, indeed... what?

Best, Geert




On 5 Dec 2005, at 12:36 PM, Michael Bouwens wrote:

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Geert,

You are very short with your critique. Do you mean the trend that it 
is increasingly embedded in the market economy?

Are these issues discussed in a better way in other forums? Can we 
learn something from them?

Michel

"Geert Lovink [c]" wrote:
On 4 Dec 2005, at 2:54 PM, Franz Nahrada wrote:

We are in a major shift here

Which major shift? I must have missed something. All I see on this list
is stagnation, repetition of arguments and a major disengagement with
the complex world of floss and where it is heading.

Geert




_________________________________
Web-Site: http://www.oekonux.org/
Organization: http://www.oekonux.de/projekt/
Contact: projekt oekonux.de




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_________________________________
Web-Site: http://www.oekonux.org/
Organization: http://www.oekonux.de/projekt/
Contact: projekt oekonux.de






_________________________________
Web-Site: http://www.oekonux.org/
Organization: http://www.oekonux.de/projekt/
Contact: projekt oekonux.de
  


		
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_________________________________
Web-Site: http://www.oekonux.org/
Organization: http://www.oekonux.de/projekt/
Contact: projekt oekonux.de



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