Re: [ox-en] Re: Free Software and payment
- From: Markus <markus vodes.net>
- Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2006 13:46:49 +0100
hey Stefan and others,
I put that question intentionally. I really wanted to know whether it
is actually their point or it is rather yours. Your reply - which
actually didn't reply to my question - testifies that it is actually
your point:
i always only speak for myself (or vn at this early stage). one of the
core developers is working with us but we didnt ask for a co-operation
with the joomla developers. we have not even promoted our project on their
site simply because we are still in beta and feel we are not ready yet.
However, my point was to check what those already doing the job
actually desire. I still maintain my position that the vast majority
of Free Software projects does not see your problem as an important
one. So I'd be careful whether casting your problem onto such projects
really helps someone.
and i still maintain my postition that money per se is not the problem and
can actually be of great benefit to ANY project. imv, the real problem is
to ensure a fair distribution of the money. and for that we have the (1)
important economic decisions, (2) team beta tester representing the
production and consumption forces and the (initially non-binding) (3)
upfront (investment option) determination how the money should be spent
(adding the "i" for interactivity to the idncc):
http://www.vodes.net/rev/option,com_virtuemart/page,shop.browse/category_id,6/Itemid,77/
imv, the stuff we are doing can be a useful framework for os communities
(e.g. where user can vote/pay for the ranking of roadmap functionalities
and the developer is only responsible to the roadmap and the user;
developer suggests a couple of possible functions, user decides on the
ranking/implementation via voting/paying: much like in the link above). if
i find some time i write a paper how the idncc structre can be of use for
os communities. havent been in brazil way too long and the conference that
was mentioned here...that would be indeed a great opportunity.
On a more general level I think what is necessary here is the ability
to only take without feeling guilty. Indeed such a concept is
something which is completely refused in any society / social system
based on limitedness or even scarcity. Thus it is very deeply rooted
in the Western culture also mixing the Christian concept of guilt
nicely into this. I think if we think GPL society we need to keep in
mind that also in the minds of people there will be some change. For
instance to only take without feeling guilty - as I do on a daily
basis with lots of Free Software.
im not sure if this "guilt-mechanism" is that bad that one should try to
get rid off. in the "material, analog" world, i think, this mechanism is
quite just.
The wishful thinking was meant about the independence thing. I'm
totally convinced that your relation to your project is the same as
for a Free Software developer for his/her project. Otherwise you
wouldn't defend your project so boldly ;-) .
well, of course im not 100% objective but i try to be - after all, i dont
wanna waste my time with something. but i made the personal experience
that - when it comes to other people - one needs to be somewhat like a
salesman. i dont like that at all, but i believe its a prize i have to
pay where the end justifies the means. but honestly, im convinced the
thing we are doing is in a reasonable and just "deal" for all involved
interest fractions. the problem is that, objectively, i dont know for
sure....
If I understand it right at the moment you are
not able to raise money by your intended core business process so to
say. Instead you are moving to fields which are more or less unrelated
to your core business. That alone is a nice example of what money can
do to a project: The goal of the project is shifted to a completely
different field. Instead of furthering the creation of useful
artifacts - like music - you are busy generating money by unrelated
activity.
about "not being able to raise money", in fact we only have applied for
one public tender and we didnt get any money. but for some reason im very
confident that companies might be willing to advertise on our VN
multi-media publications. of course, remains to be seen...
in addition, the things we are organising are not unrelated but are rather
part of a (more or less) reasonable strategy. first, when it comes to
music, for instance, promotion within dance contest or on tournament
videos (http://www.vodes.net/rev/PFG/Stockholm_2006/46%1006%1001_Videos/)
is an essential part to attract artists and give them something they want.
second, the events we organise are also in place to build up a network of
international exchange students who, in turn, can distribute our
multi-media publication at their home university. works quite all right
thus far - especially given the limited resources we have.
i used to have a very very sceptical take on money myself - guess that
explains why i dont have much of it myself. but when i got more involved
into this whole thing here i realized that its like any tool: it depends
what you do with it. and i firmly/boldly believe the transparent,
democratically legitimised mechanisms we have here allow to benefit from
money and use it in a way that is fair to all parties involved., this, in
turn, should have a lasting impact on the stability and long-term growth
of the whole community. thus, one of our core focusses is to acutally make
money. where we differ from traditional companies is that we have a
distribution mechanisms that ensures (imv) that the money is spent "for
the good". at least in my world...
_________________________________
Web-Site: http://www.oekonux.org/
Organization: http://www.oekonux.de/projekt/
Contact: projekt oekonux.de