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Re: [jox] Chaos or transparency?

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great to hear,

as soon as these things are visible, I can promote them,


On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 8:42 PM, Mathieu ONeil <mathieu.oneil>wrote:

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Hi Andreas, Michel

Over the last months we have been discussing on this list the editing of
research articles (one by meretz and merten, one by andersson, one by me),
conference reports (one by tkacz and nyesito, one by dobusch and thorne) and
debate articles (one by soderbergh, tkacz and me) so I am a little puzzled
about Andreas' notion of a "huge blank canvas ready to be filled somehow".
Nothing is publicly available yet but the debate section will be up soon as
a foretaste and the rest is or will be on the restricted part of the site,
to be released together as our first issue.



----- Original Message -----
From: Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004>
Date: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 1:40 pm
Subject: Re: [jox] Chaos or transparency?
To: journal

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I think this is an excellent suggestion,

I personally would support 3 thematic and one 'free'  issue
per year ...

On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 6:52 PM, Wittel, Andreas

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I agree with Michel's comment on process. As this is a new
experiment for a
journal I don't think it is possible anyway to get the process right
immediately. This will be much about trial and error. We will
have to see
what works and what does not, and remain open and ready to
make changes with
respect to process as we go along.

with respect to content: I wonder if it would make sense to
start with a
special issue, that is with a concrete theme for the first
issue. What we
have contentwise so far is the name of the journal and
otherwise a huge
blank canvas ready to be filled somehow. I wonder if it would
make it easier
to submit stuff initially if we focus on some things and themes.



From: owner-journal on behalf of Michel Bauwens
Sent: Tue 25/01/2011 02:13
To: journal
Subject: Re: [jox] Chaos or transparency?

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I disappeared very early on from this project because I could
sense it
be a very process-heavy project ... which is fine by me as
long as I don't
have to be involved

what I think is important is to combine two things: 1)
continue to improve
as you go along,

but even more important in my opinion is 2) to be content
focused: get
articles out  there to the public, and start publicising
them and debating
the ideas,

I hope this project can reach this stage sooner rather than
later, and once
there, I'll do my best to spread the word both about the
project and the
content in it,

but please after 18 months (or is it 2 years already?) of
preparation,> let's
get the dialogue going around the issues and the research,

I hope this doesn't sound smug, it's not meant to be and I
realize the very
hard work by stefan, mathieu and others, but it's time to open
the windows
and look outside


On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 8:20 AM, nathaniel tkacz

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Well said Athina.

Nate Tkacz

School of Culture and Communication
University of Melbourne


Research Page:
<>> >
Current project:

On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 12:05 PM, Athina Karatzogianni

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Hi Mathieu, Stefan and everyone

Reading this exchange I am wondering whether we can have a new
here, a sort of blank sheet and restart by taking on board
only what
been achieved so far, without any other useless baggage.

A review process has been more or less sketched out, and
it is clear
feasible at this point what this is, it has been debated
for over 30
emails. We have reviewed some papers and have sent some
papers for
this is ongoing and soon we can have an inaugural issue
perhaps.We have
editorial board, a scientific committee and a functioning
site we can
point people to what the journal is about and discover
more things to
utilise the site for; perhaps Stefan can oblige us by
introducing us to
they are, so we can all use them.

For an effort which started back in March in Hull and is
mostly done
email, with a lot of transparent dialogue in a very public
way, I d say
these are considerable accomplishments.

I would also like to say that we have all contributed a
tiny bit to
effort, and Stefan and Mathieu most of all, and thank you
loads for
would now be a shame to start throwing the toys out of the
pram because
are getting tired of the seemingly long and tiresome admin
usually> > involved
in this type of projects.

I think it is about offering a new platform, a
collaborative project we
all build together, so it is not about who is chaotic and
who is
or who is to blame for this and that, this is not a capitalist
and no one should be worried about getting it wrong
really, as no one
getting fired. Lets try and get along and see how we can
make this work
well as possible, given that it is our own time we are
spending doing
something we like.

Lastly, perhaps it would help if we can get on some kind of
like skype, "rebond" and rekindle our vision on what this
journal could
should be about for everyone involved.

It's 1 am here so excuse the sentimentality.....



On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 11:04 PM, Mathieu ONeil <

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Hi Stefan

I think some of this is attributable to our very different
and styles - you are very thorough and I am very
impatient - and
consequently to how we approach projects: you probably think
should be documented in great detail, I am happy with
what works and
certainly don't have the same experience than you with
software> > projects;
when you do a magazine or journal (I've done several)
you don't need
document everything in great detail; you just want to publish

So upon reflection I agree that solely relying on the
list to
process is not optimal. I will try to use the site more.
Though to be
honest, I sometimes find it hard to navigate. What may
seem perfectly
obvious and easy for you is not perceived in the same
way by

----- Original Message -----
From: Stefan Merten <smerten>
Date: Monday, January 24, 2011 6:59 pm
Subject: [jox] Chaos or transparency?
To: journal

Hi project!

From all I saw so far from Mathieu he really prefers
chaos. Or
do you
have an up-to-date overview over all the submissions
and their

Yes, that would be my last two emails on the topic...

What we actually have is a mail by Mathieu once in a
while where he
says what he currently thinks the state of things is.
And it
feels to
me that he changes his mind every week.

This is interesting to say the least. Is there any
evidence to back

Well, I learned that transparency is not only
necessary for
but even more so for peer production projects (like I
thought> > > > > this one
should be an instance of). Therefore at least to me it is
crucial to change the situation.

I tried to built the web site so it allows for maximum
transparency on
the one hand and fine-grained management of publicity
of texts
on the
other hand. It is designed to have a comprehensible
structure> > > > > and to
be easy to maintain - if you want it. From a technical
point of
it is easy to have all this - if you want it.

Sure. Like I said above, it may seem really easy to you,
but to me
aspects are quite obscure. Frankly I find it quite
clunky compared to
website software I have worked with such as wikis
(Wikipedia, P2P
Foundation) or blogs (Wordpress); though it may offer
site management
functionalities that these others don't.

Well, things reached a point where I need to make a personal
If the rest of the project agrees with this rule of
chaos then
it is
fine with me. However, I'll stop putting energy in
this project.

Guess what, I've wondered the very same thing over the
last few
I keep working with someone whose reply to a direct
question in an
sent may come in a week, or a month, or more. Everyone
has their own
and all, but this is the first time I've had that
experience. To be
I have found this incredibly frustrating at times but
have always bit
tongue (until now) for the good of the project. I would
never presume
call this method of working "chaotic", maybe you can
come up with

If you would prefer transparency, however, I'll try to
continue to
persuade Mathieu of solutions which build transparency
as easy
as a
finger snip.

OK, I'm all for transparency as well, though I can't
help noticing
want submissions to be non-transparent. At the same
time, I'm the
the journal, so I get to select some reviewers and to
tell people
think about their papers. This seems to me pretty normal.
I will obviously also be put in a position where some
people contact
directly and I may acquire more information than
everyone else over
issues. Then again I have always reported on everything
that was
If you look around the Internet at webzines, online
newspapers,> > academic
magazines, I'd be interested for you to point me to an
example of a
similarly open approach to editing a journal? I'm not
saying there
any, I'm just saying I really don't think I'm being that
secretive.> > > >
One thing I did wrong (and I'm not saying that was my
only mistake)
relation to George Dafermos' early suggestions for the review
agree that I should have stated more clearly why I
thought they were
appropriate (old, some already published elsewhere).
These were
meant to test the peer review process: but since then we found
stuff to work with which we can actually publish. If
George or anyone
has original material which they want to submit please
do so.
@ George (if you are reading): sorry for not dealing
with this more

So to sum up I agree to try to use the site more. For my
part, I
appreciate a little gesture once in a while along the
lines of
right now, will respond to this email later".



Comments are wholeheartedly appreciated.



Dr Mathieu O'Neil
Adjunct Research Fellow
Australian Demographic and Social Research Institute
College of Arts and Social Science
The Australian National University
email: mathieu.oneil[at]

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Dr Athina Karatzogianni
Lecturer in Media, Culture and Society
The Dean's Representative (Chinese Partnerships)
Faculty of Arts and Social Sciences
The University of Hull
United Kingdom
T: ++44 (0) 1482 46 5790
F: ++44 (0) 1482 466107,_culture_and_society/staff/karatzogianni,_dr_athina.aspx>

Check out Athina's work

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