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Re: [jox] A response to Michel and Jakob

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Am 15.03.2012 12:17, schrieb Jakob Rigi:
Hi Stefan, I totally agree with you and in a previous mail stated 
that Marx theory of value is totally absent from the inner logic
of p2p. Of course in a fully fledged p2p society the form of
abstract value that Marx desrbibed will disappear. But, Marx theory
of va;ue can explain the current relation between peer production
and capitalism to extent that capitalists promote p2p. They simply
do it to extract rent.

I think, there are different types of using peer production, not
uniformly by extracting rent. But basically your are right.

Actually from the users point of view both google and facebook are

Google and Facebooks are used for purposes, that can be commons. But
Google and Facebooks are definitely not commons, even not from the pov
of the users. It is always important to distinguish between the
ressource and the social process. A commons relates to the social
process with respect to a ressource, but a ressource itself can never
by a commons. A commons is a social relationship as the commodity is too.

but from the point of view of their owners, they are instruments of
extractio ofn rent. IBM contributes to p2p to extract rent too.

In case of IBM I would say that they devaluate one market (software),
to keep another market (hardware).

But, as I mentioned before this does not erase the non/capitalist
logic of p2p. P2p is a new mode of production and it is our task to
discovers its regimes of value.

Hm, I would say the core of peer prodcution has no regime of value,
even if it acts in a alien framework of value.

Marx definition of communism and his Anthroplogy in which he
equated human nature with productive creative activity (and this is
not labor) can help us to some extent. But, I think it is our own
collobarative task to describe and analzye p2p as thoroughly as
Marx described and analzyed capitalism. What I am saying is this:
without Ricarian/Marxian theory of rent we will not be able to
explain why certain capitalists promote p2p. And we will not be
able to identify the laor which produces the rent. For example one
of the most popular thesis even among some Marxist is the
following: Users of facebook, google. and ... produce exchange
value. Marx theory shows that they don`t. The value that facebook
appropriates is produced by wage labores outside it.

I completely agree. This is the nature of rent: Appropriating value
which is produced elsewhere.


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