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Re: [jox] p2p and market

Hi Cristian (Siefkes),

I read your article `The Emergence of Benefit-Driven Production` in a cafe in Budapest this afternoon. It is the best of what I have read on this topic so far. I am also very much impressed by your genre. You are able to express complex thoughts in a straightforward language without losing the complexity. This is really an art.
I enjoyed a lot. Thanks for writing it.

Have you other writings?
all the best


PS: By the way when is the next conference? 

Toni Prug 04/01/12 3:43 PM >>> 
On 01/04/2012 13:47, Michel Bauwens wrote: 
I think the question is whether the nation-state is still the dominant 
force, or has it become a globally distributed system of power, as argued 
in Empire, which thwarts any attempt by nation-states to control it 

Although at the time Empire was a timely and inspiring book, i believe 
that there is so much evidence that nation-states have enormous (but far 
from total) control over own destinies, that it is the wrong question to 
ask. Yes, productivity of external production and external capital 
seeking profit significantly limits what economic units within national 
economies can produce and at which price. Yes, the list of limits is 
long (rating agencies, individual states, groups of states, 
supra-state/national organizations, funding bodies like Paris Club, 
IMF). Regardless of all that, i believe that the right question is: what 
kind of international competition and international interaction and 
power struggle exist that limit the nation-state power, and how do those 
limits operate in practice. 

For p2p production to develop widely, we have to account for it. Whether 
the accounting occurs through use of money, or through other means, it 
has to be done, and it has to be made commensurable with commodities 
whose value is determined through monetary exchange and as such 
accounted for in GDP and in other upcoming measures of national 
economies (new indexes created by sustainable and green economists - 
ISEW/GPI, A.Sen's capabilities approach, EU's Beyond GDP project). 

P2p production is not alone in facing this problem. State services and 
goods which do not take the form of commodity (education, health, 
housing, infrastructure, institutions necessary for complex societies to 
operate) face the same problem. Pro-capitalist efforts, like Atkins 
report in UK (2005), are an attempt to account for state production 
within the logic of capitalist for profit production. The task of us 
believing in post-capitalist, egalitarian and directly democratic (both 
in "real" production and in political work as another site of 
production) is to come up with alternative measures, both on micro 
(money/price) and macro (regional, national accounting, and beyond) levels. 


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