Leftist project? (was: Re: [ox-en] Welcome)
- From: Stefan Merten <smerten oekonux.de>
- Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 10:07:16 +0100
Hi Steve and all!
This discussion about the nature of the project popped up on the
German list quite a time ago.
Yesterday steve tekell wrote:
I'd really appreciate if on the one hand the interesting results we
had on the German list could be spread out to non-German speakers and
yes, it be nice there was a page in English that covered some of the major
discussion points that has occured in the German list. Especially around
ideas like Marxism and modern anti-Capitilism.
The interview might be a bit biased to this point - well, Joanne
asked. Though I think it is true what I said there, Oekonux is *not* a
leftist project - at least not in any sense I'd associate with leftist
in any classical sense. IMHO Oekonux is clearly an emancipatory
project - which equally clearly not all leftist / Marxist currents
have been - and it's *beyond* leftist projects in many ways.
Particularly though many of us want to overcome capitalism it's not
really anti-capitalist in any classical sense I know of. We're not
fighting anything, we are not anti-something per se.
BTW I find the phrasing in the introduction to the list a bit awkward or a
little off the mark.
"principles of Gnu/Linux may serve as a foundation of a new society."
That is, how can it be sufficient for a "foundation"? Do you mean something
more like "a gateway to" or "key element of transformation and revolution"
or "part of a foundation" or "points to a foundation"?
No. Even after rethinking it I find the wording correct. Other
opinions?
It seems like when you are dealing with food, shelter, and the essentials
certain "principles" of Free software development wouldn't necessarily match
up or be sufficient to something which can't be duplicated without cost.
Maybe it's useless nitpicking, but it just sounds weird to me.
No, no, no. These things are important - so ask / discuss.
What are all these "principles" exactly?
As I wrote in the interview:
* self-unfolding as the main motivation for production,
* irrelevance of exchange value, so the focus is on the use value,
* free cooperation between people,
* international teams.
Actually when I wrote that, I wondered whether I remembered the most
important things. Anyone from the German list who can help me out on
this?
Are they not simply a particular manifestation of something which came
before? Such as anarchist morality - Free Association, Mutial Aid, etc.
The big difference is the necessity of morality. Free Software doesn't
need morality - it works without that. That's one of the biggest
strengths IMHO.
I.e. people develop Free Software for thousands of reasons and of
course there may be moral ones like the ones above. However, as the
open source faction shows us, you *need* no morality for Free Software
to work. The principles of Free Software are *not* idealist but have
clear material advantages. That's it what does qualify them as a new
model of production.
On the other hand, with Corperations
owning/controlling most all the farm land and food, I am not sure how this
leads to a solution there. And really, something which doesn't liberate
land (and food) doesn't go very far.
Though this is thinking way into the future, I have the feeling that
this is thinking in the wrong direction. Free Software has not been
developed as a case of "us vs. them". If this would be the case Free
Software would be abolished together with M$ and the like - which
clearly won't be the case.
Some people liked to do it, they had the means to do it and they did.
You're relating to the means - ok. But I think there are a lot of
means already distributed among people. Why can't a group of farmers
come to similar conclusions as software developers?
Mit Freien Grüßen
Stefan
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http://www.oekonux.org/