Re: [ox-en] Re: Collective Consciousness and Reaching the Utopian Society
- From: "Nadav Har'El" <nyh math.technion.ac.il>
- Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2001 01:39:43 +0200
On Thu, Dec 20, 2001, Aidan Delaney wrote about "[ox-en] Re: Collective Consciousness and Reaching the Utopian Society":
...
about is a 'Utopian Society'. I was recently talking to a friend who
believes that it is a naive goal. That the inherent 'badness' in people
means we will never reach it. My contention is that people are not
'bad/evil', they are just uneducated, yes including Hitler/Stalin (not
education in the University sense, but in the Egalitarian society sense), and
...
I think it is a bit dangerous to call people like the Nazis or Stalinists
"uneducated". Before the rise of Nazism, Germany was one of the most
important intellectual, cultural and educational centers of the world (in
everything from literature, music to science), and though we can argue about
Hitler's education, many of his followers were certainly well-educated
(of course, some other educated people despised him, and some escaped to
free countries like the UK or the USA).
I think it's more about moral conditioning of youngsters: being told that
non-Arians are worse than rats, and placing more importance on land than
on human lives - opposed to their American contemporaries who were told about
"... We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created
equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable
Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."
The situation with Stalin is even more complicated, because Stalin's party
(if not Stalin itself) were actually setting out to give more rights to
the people (obviously, they failed miserably). If I remember correctly,
many educated people and intellectuals supported the October revolution.
Moral ground was *supposed* to be on Stalin's side; Before the atrocities
he committed became known (or before people were willing to admit them), he
was widely called "the sun of the nations" (I'm not sure what the English
phrase is), and hailed as the person who will bring true justice and peace
to the world. Of course, quite early his citizens new otherwise, but they
couldn't do anything simple (such as voting) to get him thrown out.
Even the Simpsons (a cartoon, not a great source, but nevertheless) had
an episode where a bunch of intellectuals got control of city hall, and
started making all sort of crazy (but supposedly based on their intellect)
laws - much worse than the laws the previous mayor - a stupid, self-serving
and corrupt person - had ever passed.
This is why democracy stands on two pillars (one is NOT enough, contrary
to common belief):
1. Elections.
Giving the presidency (or prime-ministership, or whatever) to the person
or party based on votes doesn't matter much in 49%-51% cases like the
Gore-Bush elections. It matters when 80% of the people see a horrible
leader (Hitler, Stalin, Saddam Hussein, etc.) destroying their country
and want to have him replaced.
Of course, voting must be fair - once people are afraid to vote against
their leader even though they don't want him, this is no longer a democracy.
Iraq had so-called elections, and if I remember correctly, 99% of the
voters voted for Saddam (of course, he had no opposition) - I don't think
this makes Iraq a democracy.
2. Minority rights.
70% of a nation cannot vote one day to murder the other 30% who think
differently (or look differently, or whatever). This is not a democracy,
because democracy is about letting that 30% possibly grow to over 50%,
when the 70% get to see (perhaps) the error in their ways. If people
are afraid to be in minority, this is no different than a dictatorship.
So it's nice for rulers to be educated and moral and everything - but you
still want to force them to keep minority rights, and you still want to
be able to vote them out once you figure out that the renowned-philosopher
you've just elected sucks as a president.
--
Nadav Har'El | Friday, Dec 21 2001, 6 Tevet 5762
nyh math.technion.ac.il |-----------------------------------------
Phone: +972-53-245868, ICQ 13349191 |Energizer Bunny arrested - charged with
http://nadav.harel.org.il |battery.
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