[ox-en] Re: Personal/impersonal concrete/abstract
- From: Stefan Meretz <stefan.meretz hbv.org>
- Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2005 22:40:32 +0100
Hi,
due to being invited so kindly... Unfortunately I did follow the
thread in the past, I just jump in it with this invitation.
On Tuesday 08 November 2005 08:34, Stefan Merten wrote:
The discussion below refers to a analytical problem I am troubled
with. In analysing peer to peer production processes, it does
seem to me that the cooperation is impersonal and loose, rather
than personal as in premodern times. Is there any potential for a
'dialectical synthesis' of both aspects, or is P2P indeed only
impersonal, but than without alienation, as you say below? Has
anyone worked on this, and also, can someone refer me to the work
of St. Mz where he outlines the differences between personal
concrete, personal abstract.
My starting point is the historical development of forces of
production. This term "development of forces of production" describes
very generally, how humans produce their lives. It grasps the
triangle relationship between humans, means, and nature. Each of
these aspects are determining an epoch: first, the "natural" epoch,
where humans predominantly produce their lives via developing the
ways of cultivating the ground; second, the "industrial" epoch, where
humans predominantly produce their lives via developing the means (as
tools, machinary, industry, science); third, the "human" epoch, where
humans develop themselfs as an end in itself. What we currently
observe (my hypothesis), is the transition between second and third
epoch.
The historically different types of producing the humans lives evolve
in a corresponding societal form. The societal forms are the ways, how
humans build relationsships between each other when producing their
lives (when they just *live*). The corresponding forms of the three
epochs above are: "natural epoch" with personal-concrete domination
(different types of personal domination: slavery, feudal domination
etc.); "industrial epoch" with abstract-alienated domination (abstract
domination by the impersonal mechanism of making more money from
money); "human epoch" - personal-concrete non-dominion form of
society.
So the difference is not personal-concrete vs. personal-abstract (I
don't know, what this could be), but personal or abstract types of
domination - and the free society without domination including a type
of societal organisation, which bases on personal relationships. This
does not necessarily mean, that "you know each other" (which is
impossible), but the cooperation is driven by humans and their goals
instead of an abstract impersonal mechanism (what we have in
capitalism).
So do we have in fs/peer production the scheme
from personal concrete (premodern) via impersonal abstract
(capitalism, modernity) to personal abstract
... to personal concrete non-dominion, I would say.
or should the third term be: impersonal abstract but without
alienation or
Doesn't impersonal abstract always imply alienation?
impersonal concrete ??
Ehm, this does not make any sense to me:-)
If anyone feels inspired to detail this again, I would appreciate
it, I intend to talk about it in a new section of my manuscript,
Feel free.
StefanMz is on this list and I'd wish he replies to this. I think
it is an absolutely interesting issue to understand.
Yes. So, sorry for my rough answer to this important topic.
Ciao,
Stefan
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