Hi Stefan,
I do agree that it is very hard to do justice to
such a complex topic
in so little time.
Stefan Merten wrote:
Unfortunately you - as others - did say nothing
about the really
interesting and partially new thoughts about the
relationship between
Free Software and art :-( .
How could I ? Reading your mail I'm not even sure we
mean the same thing
when using these terms.
* The actual product is gratis
However: Price plays a role, but is not
crucial
Given how confused most people still are about
this
free-as-in-speech-vs.-free-as-in-beer ambiguity,
I find the above point
not very helpful. What is "the product",
As long as we talk about Free Software there is a
very easy answer:
the Free Software. I.e. the deliverables which are
installed on my,
your, Yuwei's, ... computer. No doubt.
And Free Software is certainly a product because
it is not given to us
by nature - instead it is produced by someone.
Again no doubt.
Really: I can not see what your question is here.
It is, as I tried to explain, about the 'gratis'
point. I'm not sure what
you are trying to say. (You may be thinking about
some form of value, and
how Free Software (as well as Art) don't easily
'fit' into a 'market economy',
but your statements are much to vague to let me to
such a conclusion.)
and what is gratis about it ?
It is gratis when I can obtain it without paying
money. Meanwhile this
is even literally true because I got a DSL flat
rate so internet
connection meanwhile is part of the general
preconditions of life.
Indeed for the Kubuntu I installed lately I paid
exactly nothing.
Stop! I payed for one CD-R as a boot CD. But
that's it.
For me this is gratis. No doubt.
That's rather superficial. The developer / artist
has to live, too.
Pretending that he makes a living elsewhere and
produces his work
in his spare time is superficial and dishonest (at
the least, it
is even wrong in most cases, I dare to claim).
It may have been best to skip this point, or
simply stating that the issue
is in fact about freedom, not price.
That is the FSF ideology coined by RMS. This
ideology is based on a
left-liberal, US-centric mind set. This ideology
is important to sell
Free Software to the US (intellectual) mainstream
where these concepts
are important parts of the general weltanschauung.
I don't understand your claim. I'm not interested
into the question of
whether this ideology left-liberal or US-centric,
but I'm interested in
why you believe this is merely an ideological
question.
I think it is a very practical one: Some people
claim that Free Software
gets adopted because it is cheaper than its
commercial / proprietary
conterpart. Others say it is because, because it
comes with certain
freedoms (which you cite), it gives important
advantages to its users.
I'm a strong supporter of the latter, in case this
hasn't become clear yet.
However, the Oekonux perspective - and I say
perspective instead of
ideology on purpose - is different. On purpose
because Oekonux is not
selling something - even not Free Software. More
important than the
freedom as spelled out by the US left-liberal mind
set is an analysis
of capitalism. And if you analyze capitalism you
can not ignore money
/ labor - simply because these are the things
capitalism is based on.
And from this perspective it is of utmost
importance that Free
Software has no price. And though non-existing
Free Software may have
a price existing and published Free Software
regularly has none. This
is of utmost importance because it is an important
hint that the mode
of production works *beyond* the logic of money /
labor - which is one
of the central messages of Oekonux.
Yes, the mode of production is certainly a central
point. We very much
agree on this. However, your claim that developers
work on Free Software
in their spare time is not the answer to this
question.
Is there *a* mode of production, really ?
(I think the answer to this is a clear and
unambiguous "No !")
Again you are getting lost in the details.
Well, you claim that
"Developers finance themselves by other means
Similar to other hobbies"
which I find a very unsatisfying statement (speaking
of Political Economy
and all that). Here again, I disagree strongly that
the issues I raise
are 'details'. They may not fit into your
oversimplistic ideology (yes,
sorry, that's how I call it), but I would hope you
take them seriously.
Regards,
Stefan
--
...ich hab' noch einen Koffer in Berlin...
_________________________________
Web-Site: http://www.oekonux.org/
Organization: http://www.oekonux.de/projekt/
Contact: projekt oekonux.de