Re: [ox-en] There is no such thing like "peer money"
- From: Stefan Meretz <stefan.meretz hbv.org>
- Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 10:54:43 +0200
On 2008-07-13 00:16, Samuel Rose wrote:
Btw. a side remark (also for Sam): money and business are by no
means natural things. They cannot create an "ecolology". This is a
myth, but as Marx had shown, a kind of "real operating myth". We
should not render homage to the fetish.
I think I actually called it a "human ecology" which includes human
creations such as mediums of communication, cities, human technology,
etc
You called it "money-driven human ecology", I focus on "money-driven"
and you on "human ecology". That's ok. I am sorry, I don't want to
bother you.
Money has been around for at least ten thousand years or more among
humans. Money has naturally emerged among almost every culture that
ever existed. Money does not exist in non-human systems, but money
did emerge in human systems.
But antique money has a completely different function than the modern
one. And money has not "naturally emerged", but socially.
In my view, human systems *are* ecologies. All systems are ecologies,
healthy or not, pathological or sustainable, good or bad. I see them
all through the lens of complexity theory/complex systems theory. I
use the term "ecology" to describe an emergent system of diverse
actors who's actions and re-actions affect one another in different
ways, that creates a web of complex interactions.
That' ok with me. However, I do not, because it incorrectly mixes
natural and societal processes.
I talk about money, because whether you deplore it or not, I believe
it's not going away any time soon. So, how do we deal with it?
Good question.
I think we actually agree on the above, and I am not sure why you
think you are "schooling" me on what money is, and what it does etc
I definitely know that I am not "paying homage" to a "fetish" whether
you believe that I am or not.
To me it seemed so. If not, good.
What I am doing is confronting the reality that a huge amount of
people out of the 6.5 plus billion people on the face of this earth
WILL continue to use money for probably hundreds of years to come, if
not more. And, their use of that money WILL have a tremendous effect
on you, and on me, and this *IS* a HUMAN ECOLOGY whether you think it
is or not. It is a human system, and you ARE a part of it.
I would prefer to descibe this in non-natural terms. Of course, humans
are natural beings, but the specific level to understand here is the
society, even for money.
Do you see what I am saying? You can reply back to me with as many
dismissive, arrogant, one-upping remarks that you'd like to. It's
fine with me if you think that I am full of it. I really don't care.
But, my point, my language and meaning are described above, in my
words.
I don't have much interest in discussing ideas that refuse to
acknowledge reality, or in being told that I my thinking is somehow
invalid when it's obvious you have know idea what I am talking about
in the first place when I use terms like "human ecology".
I really don't even understand why you seem to be getting angry at
this exchange of ideas, but I don't really know you, so I can only
guess.
Maybe you can help me understand. It's ok if you think I am full of
shit. Just help me understand why you seem to think what I am saying
is wrong, I do not get it.
I think this is indeed a disadvantage of the email medium. Maybe I am a
too serious person. I don't want to make you angry, and I hope you can
accept my apologies.
Ciao,
Stefan
--
Start here: www.meretz.de
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