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Re: [ox-en] Re: Role of markets



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Yes, I understand.

My response has to do with the earlier framing of the debate, whether
economic practices and models can transcend the current political economy.

What it seems to me is that you are working within a classic framework of
working for money provided by clients, and thus in a position of dependency,
but at the same time, you are doing so with your ethical ideals in mind,
choosing to work on non-proprietary software, and thereby strengthening the
place of the free software commons.

It is a legimate and respectable way of doing this,

Michel

On Thu, Aug 14, 2008 at 9:38 AM, Samuel Rose <samuel.rose gmail.com> wrote:

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Well, you are almost right. except that the product is also a commons (in
that changes are given back to the greater open source commons) and I am
actually hsoting repositories where people can download apps that I am
working on, all of which are based on GPL'ed software

If this doesn't make sense, please let me know and I'll try to explain a
detailed scenario



On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 10:35 PM, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 gmail.com
wrote:

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Hi Sam,

the difference between what Paul and you are saying:

- Paul is talking about peer production or 'doubly-free software', where
the
production is free and the product is a commons

- you are talking about freelance labour in a capitalist economy (though
it
could be done for a non-capitalist sector), producing singly-free
software
...

of course, I'm not implying that what you are doing is not proper or not
ethical, and your work strengthens the reproduction of singly-free
software.

but if you would not do this work, you would starve,

or maybe i'm wrong, and you are inserted in an alternative economic
logic?

Michel

On Thu, Aug 14, 2008 at 5:05 AM, Samuel Rose <samuel.rose gmail.com>
wrote:

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Paul
----
The labour used in communal free software is part of the social
surplus
labour. It is only possible for it to be produced insofar as there
are
people who are either able to put time into it because they are
in an academic environment where they have surplus paid time, or
because the advance of technology has reduced the working week
sufficiently that people have time after paid work to do it.



Sam writes:


A third factor that makes it posible (of which I am living proof):

You have a *business* built around offering support for communal free
software, and so you are directly paid by other people to develop it.
Your
production/labor *becomes* the production of communal/free software.
This
being the case, part of your workflow involves helping with communal
issues,
uploading patches, uploading your own extensions of existing code, etc
(plus, you *costs* of doing business *decrease* dramatically, and your
capabilities increase, when basing your business around communal/free
software). This is done carefully, 'though. You have to be careful not
to
become a parasite upon the free software communities. There is a "best
practices" workflow you can employ that will allow you to be very
productive, while still contributing directly as part of your workflow.







As I said in an earlier post, goods whose marginal costs of
reproduction
tends to zero fall into one of the categories for which even
indicative
markets are not appropriate.

I specified that I thought that the role of a consumer goods market
was
limited to
those goods whose labour of reproduction remained considerable, and
for which no objective assesment of need can be arrived at.
Where either of these criteria are absent, a market is not
appropriate.
Information goods -- scientific laws, mathematical theorems,
software,
electronic copies of music, etc should be distributed freely.
Goods that require substantial labour input but for which need can
be objectively assesed, should be free but not ad libitum,
distribution
has to be rationed on the basis of need: examples would be surgery,
speech therapy, communal childcare etc.




[2 text/html]
_________________________________
Web-Site: http://www.oekonux.org/
Organization: http://www.oekonux.de/projekt/
Contact: projekt oekonux.de




--
Sam Rose
Social Synergy
Tel:+1(517) 639-1552
Cel: +1-(517)-974-6451
AIM: Str9960
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http://socialsynergyweb.com/services


Related Sites/Blogs/Projects:
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http://p2pfoundation.net
http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
http://www.cooperationcommons.com
http://barcampbank.org
http://communitywiki.org
http://openfarmtech.org
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[2 text/html]
_________________________________
Web-Site: http://www.oekonux.org/
Organization: http://www.oekonux.de/projekt/
Contact: projekt oekonux.de




--
The P2P Foundation researches, documents and promotes peer to peer
alternatives.

Wiki and Encyclopedia, at http://p2pfoundation.net; Blog, at
http://blog.p2pfoundation.net; Newsletter, at
http://integralvisioning.org/index.php?topic=p2p

Basic essay at http://www.ctheory.net/articles.aspx?id=499; interview at
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[2 text/html]
_________________________________
Web-Site: http://www.oekonux.org/
Organization: http://www.oekonux.de/projekt/
Contact: projekt oekonux.de




--
Sam Rose
Social Synergy
Tel:+1(517) 639-1552
Cel: +1-(517)-974-6451
AIM: Str9960
Linkedin Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/samrose
skype: samuelrose
email: samuel.rose gmail.com
http://socialsynergyweb.com/services


Related Sites/Blogs/Projects:
OpenBusinessModels: http://socialsynergyweb.net/cgi-bin/wiki/FrontPage
http://p2pfoundation.net
http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
http://www.cooperationcommons.com
http://barcampbank.org
http://communitywiki.org
http://openfarmtech.org
Information Filtering:
http://ma.gnolia.com/people/srose/bookmarks
http://del.icio.us/srose
http://twitter.com/SamRose


[2 text/html]
_________________________________
Web-Site: http://www.oekonux.org/
Organization: http://www.oekonux.de/projekt/
Contact: projekt oekonux.de




-- 
The P2P Foundation researches, documents and promotes peer to peer
alternatives.

Wiki and Encyclopedia, at http://p2pfoundation.net; Blog, at
http://blog.p2pfoundation.net; Newsletter, at
http://integralvisioning.org/index.php?topic=p2p

Basic essay at http://www.ctheory.net/articles.aspx?id=499; interview at
http://poynder.blogspot.com/2006/09/p2p-very-core-of-world-to-come.html
BEST VIDEO ON P2P:
http://video.google.com.au/videoplay?docid=4549818267592301968&hl=en-AU

KEEP UP TO DATE through our Delicious tags at http://del.icio.us/mbauwens

The work of the P2P Foundation is supported by SHIFTN,
http://www.shiftn.com/


[2 text/html]
_________________________________
Web-Site: http://www.oekonux.org/
Organization: http://www.oekonux.de/projekt/
Contact: projekt oekonux.de



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