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Hi Paul,
Can you say which specific aspect of Patric's theory you find
counterfactual?
Michel
----
This
Price = Costs + Profit
A consumer pays a price above cost when competition is imperfect. If
fruit and nut trees growing down every lane were owned by the
consumers, then Price would approach Cost as Profit approached Zero.
Profit = Price - Costs
Profit is the difference between Consumer Price paid and Owner Costs
spent. Profit is paid by consumers when they pay a price above cost.
Profit does not disappear in competitive industries!
This is a dogma of some early 20th century neoclassicals with not a shred
of empirical support.
On Sun, Aug 17, 2008 at 12:54 AM, Paul Cockshott <wpc dcs.gla.ac.uk>
wrote:
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I suggest that Patrick peruse the national accounts or input output table
of any
leading captitalist country before peddling this counter factual rubbish.
Paul Cockshott
Dept of Computing Science
University of Glasgow
+44 141 330 1629
www.dcs.gla.ac.uk/~wpc/reports/<http://www.dcs.gla.ac.uk/%7Ewpc/reports/><
http://www.dcs.gla.ac.uk/%7Ewpc/reports/>
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-list-en oekonux.org on behalf of Patrick Anderson
Sent: Sat 8/16/2008 6:07 PM
To: list-en oekonux.org
Subject: Re: [ox-en] Re: "At Cost"
On Mon, Jun 9, 2008 at 2:37 PM, Franz Nahrada <f.nahrada reflex.at>
wrote:
In Capitalist societies, actually everything tends to be sold at cost.
Yet there is profit,
Then I do not understand your definitions of these terms.
Here are my definitions. Tell me yours and we can meet somewhere
between:
Costs = Wages + all the other costs of production incurred by the
owners during the last round of production - including all investment,
maintenance, insurance, etc.
Price = Costs + Profit
A consumer pays a price above cost when competition is imperfect. If
fruit and nut trees growing down every lane were owned by the
consumers, then Price would approach Cost as Profit approached Zero.
Profit = Price - Costs
Profit is the difference between Consumer Price paid and Owner Costs
spent. Profit is paid by consumers when they pay a price above cost.
its not a difference between price and cost, but exploitation of this
ability !!!
Exploitation occurs only because the worker cannoy !!!
Exploitation occurs only because the worker cannot consume, not
because he cannot work.
It is true there is much work to be done, and we can't expect those
trees to plant themselves, yet will a society owned by the workers
want to eliminate their own jobs?
If the Means of Production are owned by those that consume the
product, then profit can safely approach zero while employment can
safely be minimized and automated away.
Abolish capitalism, and you dont have the problem either:
I don't know how to abolish anything other than to replace it by
slowly growing as a germ form from within the current state by
purchasing real property and holding it under a contract that enforces
the 'solution' we find - just as the GNU GPL enforces the solution to
stop owners from hoarding the sources of that production.
An estate that grows into a new state from within a mother state.
there is no
money, so there is no price and cost.
Franz, would you say that a 'good' money could never be constructed,
or is it that we just don't need money, so it should be abolished?
Sincerely,
Patrick
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