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Re: [ox-en] Re: "At Cost"

Patrick Anderson wrote:

On Fri, Sep 19, 2008 at 4:10 PM, Stefan Seefeld <seefeld sympatico.ca> wrote:

I don't think this is a useful approach. A license agreement (with a
copyright) is a device that exists within a given legislation. It depends on
it. However, human(e) relationships may be tainted by the dominant mode of
production, but the Free Software community is a wonderful example of them
not being confineable.


Stefan,

I really want to understand what you are saying here, but am having
trouble.  Could you please restate this?
OK, let me start by putting it back into context. This exchange was triggered by a mail of yours from 20/8, where you explained the GPL as a device to promote a certain mode of production. You explained production exclusively in terms of 'cost', 'ownership', 'profit', etc., which I criticised as too limited. While a license, as a legal device, certainly has to work within the confins of a given legal system, our model of society does not. 



Also, I quite havily disagree with your introduction of moral terms into
this. What makes usage of 'ownership to subjugate others' 'immoral' ? And, I
might add, according to whose moral system ?


I agree that I shouldn't have resorted to claiming morality.  I did so
out of ... I guess laziness.

I was trying to describe what I think most people would generally
'want' out of a new mode of production, especially as compared to
Capitalism.


OK.


1. Would you say subjugating others is an end goal of Oekonux?


No.

2. Would you say *stopping* the subjugation of others is an end goal of Oekonux?


Not directly, no.


3. Would you say the end goals of Oekonux have nothing to with the
subjugation of others?
No I would not. Oekonux is about understanding the (politico-economical) mechanisms of FLOSS, and in particular, what role that may play in the evolution of society as a whole. As such, it may well contribute to our (collectively) emancipation with respect to what you call 'subjugation of others'. 


Instead of simply condemning property rights and any Terms of
Operation that may be enforced through that ownership, I am trying to
use them to our advantage by:


Again, I don't think this is about 'condemning' property rights, but about
understanding how restricting they are to society.


When I wrote 'condemning' I was speaking of the not uncommon stance
that "property is theft".
Yes, understood. In fact, I can very much relate to that, though I see the danger of 'idealizing' (also in a philosophical sense) this whole process. 

Thanks,
      Stefan

--

     ...ich hab' noch einen Koffer in Berlin...

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