Message 00005 [Homepage] [Navigation]
Thread: oxenrawT00001 Message: 2/2 L1 [In date index] [In thread index]
[First in Thread] [Last in Thread] [Date Next] [Date Prev]
[Next in Thread] [Prev in Thread] [Next Thread] [Prev Thread]

Re: [ox-en] Fascism and GPL society? (was: Re: the GPL society, theory or practice?)

On Tue, Mar 23, 2004 at 09:49:17PM [PHONE NUMBER REMOVED], Stefan Merten wrote:
As far as hatred is concerned I think the basis for this also
vanishes if Selbstentfaltung is the basis of the society. Hatred
belongs for sure to the freedom of humans just as love, all kind of
atrocities, wonderful things, etc. However, in capitalism being
based on competition hatred is a useful attitude. If in a GPL
society you are interested in the Selbstentfaltung of everyone on
this globe hatred is in no way I can imagine useful. In the contrary
hatred contradicts your own interests. So at least I'd say the
incentives for hatred are much smaller in a GPL society than today.

In the sense that organized political and social movements can use
hatred to mobilize people to their benefit, I understand your

In the example that this list has seen (which is, I assume, the context
of this discussion) though, that's not really what we've seen. I don't
think people are too afraid that Nazi's are going to conquer the Free
Software movement or the GPL society. If people are afraid of this,
they shouldn't be; the single Fascist developer we've talked about is
politically, socially, and technically on the extreme fringes of the
FOSS development community.

The fear in question is a more fundamental one in that working with
these *individuals* in inherently problematic for a number of reasons
I don't happen to feel strongly about and so won't try to represent.

For me, Free Software is connected to my philosophy and practice of
anti-fascism, anti-authoritarianism, anti-sexism, and anti-racism,
etc. This clearly isn't the case for everyone and I'm not convinced
that there are any reasons this needs to be. As we've both said, one
of FOSS's greatest qualities (in an abstract general sense) is this

First, I'm not convinced that hatred is really all that useful for
capitalism. It can lead to profit but so can cooperation, flexibility,
and embracing diversity. On the other hand, hatred has persisted into
situations where it clearly *does* disadvantage the individuals who
hate. It may not happen in the systemic way that we all agree is worse
but I think it will continue in the individual ways we still don't

Free Software, defined as it is, is going accessible to racists and as
long as there are enough racists with computer around, we're going to
find a few of them of them using and writing Free Software. :-/

p> >> To make it clear: I fully understand your concerns about your security
on an emotional basis. On an rational basis kicking and banning
someone is in no way effective for this.

No, but it sends a clear message to clear off. Wikis, which
perhaps cast the very figure of openness, indeed have a ban list.

Please remember that this list attracted the one who then should be
banned. If I were those who demanded this I would *at first* think
about whether this was really necessary.

He was attracted because we were talking about him, I didn't get the
sense he was particularly interested in Oekonux at all and as soon as
we stop talking about him, I highly doubt we'll hear from him again.


Benjamin Mako Hill

Thread: oxenrawT00001 Message: 2/2 L1 [In date index] [In thread index]
Message 00005 [Homepage] [Navigation]