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Re: [ox-en] Re: [ox] Re: Oekonux and politics



hi stefan, hi list

Stefan Merten wrote:

1 hours ago Thomas Berker wrote:

As I stated above: These are all important questions if you build
dams. If you build dams you need to know how to move earth in high
quantities and make it as hard as possible, compute all the angels as
good as possible and so on. The very most of these questions are
completely meaningless when you want to build ships.

Even if you build ships you will become involved in current currents the very same moment you want to sail away. That exactly is the limitation of this otherwise nice metaphor.


No it is not its limitation. The water is the common denominator. But
the water in this picture IMHO is the reality or the historical
process if you like. To me this metaphor points to two different ways
to deal with reality. One way is to build dams and resist the water /
historical process another way is to build ships and sail on it.

I. i think any metaphor that gives another alternative is useful and for that i say thank you - however i think there is an error in us thinking of ourselves like a ship sailing on a sea of history - we should not abstract ourselves from the historical process

Walter Benjamin's description of Paul Klee's painting 'Angelus Novus' [1] makes the same error; here the media is air rather than water:

" ... "Angelus Novus" shows an angel looking as though he is about to move away from something he is fixedly contemplating. His eyes are staring, his mouth is open, his wings are spread. This is how one pictures the angel of history. His face is turned toward the past. Where we perceive a chain of events, he sees one single catastrophe which keeps piling wreckage upon wreckage and hurls it in front of his feet. The angel would like to stay, awaken the dead, and make whole what has been smashed. But a storm is blowing from Paradise; it has got caught in his wings with such violence that the angel can no longer close them. This storm irresistibly propels him into the future to which his back is turned, while the pile of debris before him grows skyward. This storm is what we call progress."

II.	thanks for the metaphor ... it lead to an interesting dream ;)

we were all on a ship, exchanging 'bon mots' in lots of different languages - it was great ... '7 of 9' was there too ;) ... any way it started to rain on the inside of the ship !

"what the f***s happening here 7 ?" i say "it's like the last scene of 'solaris[2]' !"

"we are not islands" she says "we are the water"

III. on the bigger issue of this thread 'oekonux and politics', i'm glad oekonux exists and think its openness alone will attract further members over time - i think that its existing members are doing a variety of things to 'further aid the cause' elsewhere ... and that those elsewhere places are currently the best places to do that kind of stuff

further, i think that we should not entertain notions of being on the 'left'

question ? does any one on this list consider them selves to be 'left-wing' ? i don't - i think of left-wing and right-wing as just wings of capital and only of passing interest to what's happening virtually ... or moreover what could be happening virtually to the world given this seed and our participation / precipitation

the question must be how to grow this seed to our mutual benefit ?

--
adam


[1] http://www.class.uidaho.edu/diversity/paul_klee.htm
[2] Solaris 1972 Dir: Andrei Tarkovsky; Writer: Andrei Tarkovsky and Friedrich Gorenstein;

"By setting up artificial boundaries, we squash the idea that thought is limitless - Dr. Messinger"

_______________________
http://www.oekonux.org/



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