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Re: A second WAS [ox-en] Germ of a new form of society ? [Philosophical Investigation]



Hi,

Niall Douglas wrote:

On 8 Feb 2004 at 2:37, Adam Moran wrote:

I suspect / theorise that some of the self / other descriptive
techniques ... views of the world, so to speak ... are flawed if
adopted on mass.


Most ideas become flawed when adopted en mass unless they make use of the need of systems to grow. For example if communism had enshrined a dynamic constantly changing worldview at its heart, it would like have succeeded (of course it wouldn't be communism anymore).

One thing very good about capitalism is that it rewards taking risk. It's very risky to change or even often to suggest change because people don't like change. But boy has a lot of change in the world's population occurred primarily because of capitalism (many complain of its culturally homogenising effect, but an ecosystem thrives not only from diversity but also from /coupling/ between the diverse elements).

I am unsure of how Marx thought a communist mode of production would work; I've been trying to get my head around it. He'd moved to Paris to witness the almost spontaneous community in 1848 and was just trying to get his own head around all the stuff that was breaking out, I guess. Before then, I don't know whether he would have called himself a communist, in fact I seem to remember that he wrote against them in a funny kind of a way. He was more interested in trying to stir things up in Prussia after he'd not got the job he wanted at a university ... or something. [smile]

Well Marx / Engels certainly got their act together in Paris ... i dunno whether it was the feeling of emancipation they must have felt in that brief and somewhat limited autonomy, oder, but that's when they started publishing their more coherent stuff.

Anyway it was picked up and re-purposed and used by all species of groups to their own telos; most of these started off with high ambitions but were just subsumed by the same old same-old. What happened in Russia in 1907 was to a certain extent a precursor and model to 1917. I think its clear from what Lenin wrote that he meant to enforce a new mode of production based on common wealth. May be it would have gone another way if Germany hadn't been split. (Alive Rosa roo - A valentine to you). Germany was far more industrialised; Russia was in a predominantly agrarian-feudal system and it was just too much to turn around. Dunno ... I heard this stuff mainly on picket-lines ... maybe these are are just malformed memories of other malformed memories.

The rest can be picked from school books; well, maybe not any more but this is how I heard it ... an attempt at new mode of production in Russia based on the commune model; no money / joint decisions and the associated phenomena of voluntary hard work. Strange how this phenomena lasted many years after Russia was subsumed by the same old same-old. I remember questioning my old man who was on piece-work at the time about the Stakhanovite year and the legendary rates of production; he just laughed and said "same old, same-old" ... and how can you argue with a man whose shoveled shit for fifty years non-stop ? [laugh]

Sure people worked hard at the beginning ... who wouldn't if you had a chance for a different way of being ... but it was easily subsumed because of its hierarchical structure by the same old same-old. The world turned on Russia and the structure built by Lenin for perhaps a greater intention was refactored by others into a Shakespearean tragedy.

I take the point - ideas become flawed when adopted en mass unless they make use of the need of systems to grow - what is required is *Feedback*.

I spent a lot of time reading after being accused, as it felt to me, of being a philosopher - that's not what I'm into and i took it as an insult ... i didn't really know what this list was about, except i read the term self-unfolding and thought "Where all going to have some fun now !" [grin]

Anyway I thought I'd found a pattern and conceptulised it into another pattern - an hierarchical categorisation system of Genera / Species ... how many dimensions has this pattern - duh ... sorry folks ... I was in a hurry to give you all the present.

The 'Cigar' in this game goes to the one / many of us who can *Present the Telos* - by this I mean figure out a method of explaining to everyone else what is happening in and around us.

I've tried to get there (in a Wittgenstein sense) with my atomics but i know i'm very far behind anything substantial and I'm happy to play this open handed. I started off at Aristotle for what I thought were obvious reasons and was somewhat amazed at the lack of contradictory response. "I must be on to something" I thought - that's how it works on most of the email lists I'm on - "Well I'll just keep playing the same card until a better one turns up. [grin]"

Negri turned up once or twice which got me thinking "yeah ... they're on to something ... he talks the Aristotelean talk ... Telos one thing, telos the other, telos the same old story ... the same old same old story. [grin]"

... Anyway to cut to the chase and lighten up the mood a bit around here, I'm going to drop my atom *I* and state of the *We* idea ... is bad an loses territory won by the meteors ... At the same time I'll drop some more sources:

dialectics
----------
http://www.groucho-marx.com/

atomics
-------
http://theory.uwinnipeg.ca/mod_tech/node139.html
Special Relativity

http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1841/dr-theses/ch05.htm
Chapter Two: The Qualities of the Atom

http://www.cleanforum.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=35

" • Only introduces universal metaphors of form, space and time. "

... and out of this reading it made a lot of sense to use the meteors of Epicurus and the lyrics of the *Bunnymen*

--
stay tuned for the *Cure* - we are going to have some fun now ! [laugh]

--
tranquillo

cigar - very phallic [smile]

_______________________
http://www.oekonux.org/



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