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What is value? (was: Re: [ox-en] There is no such thing like "peer money")



On 2008-11-24 11:09, Paul Cockshott wrote:
Stefan Meretz wrote:
The calculation is impossible. You can't break down "complex
labour" to "simple-labour" -- how could this be done? Again, it is
a misunderstanding, that "value" is something, which can be
calculated or even transformed in prices, because it is a societal
relationship and not a "thing". Yes, I know, that have been
thousands of economists who tried this, but nobody reach success
(sorry, Paul).

It can be done by adding up the time taken to train different trades
and professions and amortising this over either the working life, or
the period of obsolescence of the skill , whichever is the shorter.

What about development of productive forces?  Using machines, computers, 
levels of cooperation? What about tacit knowledge? Affective labour? 
And so on...

Is it value or exchange value that you mean is a social relationship?

Both.

Exchange value certainly is presented by Marx as a relation in the
strict sense of Cobbs relational algebra, but is value also a
relation?

Yes, of course. Value is the expression of the fact, that production is 
taken place isolated from each other (aka: privatly) which brings up 
the necessity of an exchange and thus of a comparision of the goods. 
But goods are not comparable in the sense of finding an answer to the 
queston if they are equivalent. The only aspect, which is comparable in 
the sense equivalence, is the abstract labour.

Abstract labour does not exist and does exist at the same time. Nobody 
has ever seen or done »abstract labour«, it is nothing »real«. At the 
same time it is »real«, because it is created by the simple fact, that 
it is needed to be able to exchange equivalently. And the process 
of »abstraction« is real in sense, that it happens really (the 
word »real abstraction« is from Alfred Sohn-Rethel), it guides the 
actions of the people (which is the base of fetishism). But this 
reality is nothing natural, but exists only due to the fact, that 
isolated production needs exchange and thus value. Value is a social 
relationship. In other social circumstances, namely in a society, which 
does not base on isolated production and exchange, there is no value at 
all.

I am not sure if this answers your question.

Ciao,
Stefan

-- 
Start here: www.meretz.de
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