Fwd: Re: [ox-en] Re: The nature of apple trees
- From: CTVN <coreteam vodes.net>
- Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 14:57:03 +0200
hi Stefan,
interesting discussion - at least to me. hope its not too repetitive for
you.
2 days ago CTVN wrote:
whats the difference between a slave and a worker? the latter has money
as
an effective exchange tool available to selbstentfalt him/herself when
(s)he is not being forced to spend 40 hours per week to do a job thats
necessary for a society to function well. seems like a reasonable
(improvable, not abolishable) system to me.
Well, I'm for overcoming it by better alternatives.
in terms of effectiveness, this "better" alternative has a very high
threshold to pass as todays world is functioning very efficiently (though
its unfair) in my view. morally "your" system might be superior, but thats
only half of the story.
and lets not forget that communism and its derivatives failed quite badly.
devil's in the detail of course, but, in my view, because of this victory
prima facie the capitlist system with exchange and money deserves more
attention and is "in the lead".
sorry, i just cant picture a
world where everyone is free and basically does what (s)he wants and
things overall still work. there are just too many boring, repetitive
(even interesting, repetitive tasks often become boring over time), and
"servant" tasks outthere that need to be done.
Indeed this is hard to imagine. But this is part of the challenge of
Oekonux to imagine and research exactly that.
one problem im having with is that you aim to kill money as a very
effective extrinsic motivation tool. people are the way they are and money
causes them to do things that are needed. look at all the amazing work ngo
do and even companies with a social conious. do you really think that a
society where people only do what they want can, for example, pull of a
thing like google earth in such a short period of time? im sure the
non-interesting tasks in this project by far outweigh the interesting ones.
Just that you being raised in the old system lack imagination does not
mean it is impossible, however. People in the 18th century certainly
could not imagine that 200 years later life of an average person is
largely defined by money. Still this is the case.
i think you totally underestimate the importance of money, companies and
exchange ("structural force") in OS projects.
Can you then please give me a reference where I can get money for my
own Free Software activities?
basically, my impression that ive got over time is
that - as a rule with exceptions (like apache) - the most successful os
projects have exchange, money and corporate backers involved to a large
degree.
I don't think that we agree on the term "successful" here. Can you
give criteria for a successful project?
first, whats "unsuccessful"? certainly, abandonded projects. look at
sourceforge how many thousands and thousands of projects are
registered there but are dead. most of them have been started
passionately, out of the stomach
and then abandoned. generally, i think that money involvement makes such
projects
more stable and serious.
successful for me means that it is useful and many people are using it.
call it marketshare if you want.
generally, i
think a good way to assess the relevance/influence of money is to look at
os
software where there is a money and non-money driven project. browser
(firefox) and text editor (open office) for example. the two projects are
heavily backed by
companies and lots of people and companies use it. thats what i call
success.
also, all major linux
distributions are lead by companies. linux code itself is heavily paid for
by commpanies. i think Michel made explicit reference to linux in his
posting on role of money.
dont get me wrong, im not at all saying selbstentfaltung is bad - in
fact, i believe its a
very, useful strong force one should certainly not try to cut it.
similarly, i believe one
should not try to eradicate a similarly strong human extrinsic motivation
(desire
for money or something that allows them to fulfill their needs). the
capability to write great code does not depend on whether the person is
intrinsically or extrinsically motivated. so, my conclusion is to find a
way to combine existing, highly effective extrinsic with intrinsic
motivation to ensure a maximum output of high quality code (products,
services).
_________________________________
Web-Site: http://www.oekonux.org/
Organization: http://www.oekonux.de/projekt/
Contact: projekt oekonux.de