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Re: [ox-en] extrinsic motivation = coercion



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Hi Alex,

You are of right of course.

It's only that when people sometimes stress the unrivalry of information
goods, they may be aware of the 'scaffolding' (as I am), but aim at another
reductionism, that of those who see everything as 'totally scarce' either by
nature, or requiring it to be so to artificially maintain markets. So it is
best to see the whole thing as a continuum, with non-existing absolute
abundance and scarcity at the polarities. Abundance is always just an
aspect, every abundance creating also a necessary scarcity shadow, such as
for example, the abundance of information leading to a scarcity of
attention. (think of the ying yang symbol in taoism, no matter whether a
thing is white or black, it always has a tiny spot of the opposing quality)

I recommend Roberto Verzola's work for clarification of the subtle
relationships between abundance and scarcity:

From http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/?s=Verzola

 Roberto Verzola: Finite demand makes relative abundance
possible<http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/roberto-verzola-finite-demand-makes-relative-abundance-possible/2009/01/31>

Posted on Saturday, January 31st, 2009

A very important contribution to abundance theory by Roberto Verzola:
“It is almost by definition that economists predominantly focus on scarcity,
when they define economics as the study of “the most efficient ways to
allocate scarce resources to meet infinite human wants”.


mics <http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/category/p2p-economics>, P2P
Governance<http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/category/p2p-governance>|
Edit <http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/wp-admin/post.php?action=edit&post=2168>| 1
Comment »<http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/from-gain-maximization-to-risk-minimization/2008/12/03#comments>
Abundance as a field of study (2): a
typology<http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/abundance-as-a-field-of-study-2-a-typology/2008/11/22>

Posted on Saturday, November 22nd, 2008

We continue our presentation of Roberto Verzola’s essay, ‘Studying
Abundance‘.
Following yesterday’s explanation of the different aspects of abundance,
Roberto now formulates a typology distinguishes five different kinds of
abunance.
Roberto Verzola:
“Taking into account these various ways of classifying abundance, we suggest
the following tentative classification to highlight the differences among
the various types.


Abundance as a field of study
(1)<http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/abundance-as-a-field-of-study-1/2008/11/21>

Posted on Friday, November 21st, 2008

We discussed a major essay by Robert Verzola, in which he outlined the ‘war
against abundance in the physical world’, in two parts on the 15th and the
16th.
This was in fact his second essay on the topic, as explained here.
His third essay is a draft on ‘Studying Abundance‘, and an explicit critique
of an [...]


nomics <http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/category/p2p-economics>, P2P
Theory<http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/category/p2p-theory>|
Edit <http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/wp-admin/post.php?action=edit&post=2117>|
No
Comments »<http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/abundance-as-a-field-of-study-1/2008/11/21#respond>
The war against abundance in the physical world (2): towards policies for
abundance<http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/the-war-against-abundance-in-the-physical-world-2-towards-policies-for-abundance/2008/11/16>

Posted on Sunday, November 16th, 2008

We continue the presentation of the very important essay by Robert Verzola.
This time, excerpts of what he has to say about a positive policy geared
towards producing positive feedback loops of abundance.
Roberto Verzola:
1. Marshalling the abundance of nature
“Creating abundance is a matter of reproducing a good over and over again,
until more than enough is [...]

Read the rest of this
post...<http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/the-war-against-abundance-in-the-physical-world-2-towards-policies-for-abundance/2008/11/16>

Posted in P2P Commons <http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/category/p2p-commons>, P2P
Economics <http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/category/p2p-economics>, P2P Public
Policy <http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/category/p2p-public-policy>, P2P
Theory <http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/category/p2p-theory> |
Edit<http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/wp-admin/post.php?action=edit&post=2111>|
No
Comments »<http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/the-war-against-abundance-in-the-physical-world-2-towards-policies-for-abundance/2008/11/16#respond>
 The war against abundance in the physical world
(1)<http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/the-war-against-abundance-in-the-physical-world-1/2008/11/15>

Posted on Saturday, November 15th, 2008

1. Introduction
Most people would assume that the digital commons is naturally abundant
(even though it does take a physical infrastructure to maintain), but that
natural and processed material goods are ‘naturally’ rival and scarce. We
intuit and know that a market-based and for-profit based system is
necessarily interested in maintaining scarcity, but it may not [...]


On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 7:37 AM, Alex Rollin <alex.rollin gmail.com> wrote:

My point is that your description of markets is inherently reductionist.

These are not separate issues.

Entitlement is not free.  There is a price.  Someone pays.

It is not merely relativism, either.

What do you think this discussion is about?  I will attempt to make my
point clearer.

I have read all the threads and I was growing weary of the
reductionism, so I jumped in.

Originally Adam Smith posited the "invisible hand" as exactly all
these "other issues" correcting the power of producers to set prices,
inevitably 'forcing' all costs to 'marginal,' as you put it.

By slicing off the left hand you are making the same incomplete
argument as those who say a free market is equated with no government
intervention.

Free software is 'supported' by all of these scaffolds.  Labeling them
as irrelevant or adding that their net effect creates the opportunity
for 'marginal cost' doesn't make them any less important.

A

A

On Wed, May 6, 2009 at 2:07 AM, Diego Saravia <diego.saravia gmail.com>
wrote:
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[1 text/plain]
2009/5/5 Alex Rollin <alex.rollin gmail.com>

If a person does not have culturally grounded location to make use of
information and the person is  ( unknown to them ) better off having
information then motivation is extrinsic and information is not free
regardless of price in whatever unit of currency or their available
skills.




and? what is the relevance of that for our discussion?

that person do not "buy" free software at all, he/she do not pay anything
at
all

for people that "consume" free software, free software is free

your point is very important for other kind of problems, digital divide,
etc.





--
Diego Saravia
Diego.Saravia gmail.com
NO FUNCIONA->dsa unsa.edu.ar


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--
Alex
I cannot teach anybody anything, I can only make them think.- Socrates
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