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Re: [jox] A response to Michel Bauwens

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hi Stefan,

this observation is based on repeated dialogue with the other Stefan, who
insisted repeatedly that neither politics nor social struggles had any
import ..

actually, even in your whole series about the aspects of peer production,
your 'beyond' series, I also got an impression that they are described
separate from their embeddedness in the overall political economy. For
example, you can say peer production is beyond labour, but at the same
time, people who have no access to income, cannot sustain such activity,
and hence there is a deep interpenetration between the continuation of peer
production projects and the need to work with for-profit enterprises ...

to my mind, you cannot discuss one without the other, and you need specific
counter-proposals and a counter-strategy

but in the years I was participating in Oekonux, I have never heard much
attention paid on such counterstrategy ... For example, take Christian
Siefkes excellent work, it is a brillant description how things could be in
an integral p2p society, but I do not get any sense of how to get from
'here' to 'there'.

so Stefan, certainly no evil intent, I'm just partaking of my judgment, and
I'd be happy to hear that I'm mistaken

On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 7:27 PM, Stefan Meretz <stefan> wrote:

Hi all,

Am 05.03.2012 12:27, schrieb Michel Bauwens:
Jakob, the archives of oekonux should be publcly searchable,

They are:

at least they
were when I left. You may appreciate the contributions of Raoul Victor in
particular. I can put you in touch with him. In general, Oekonux suffers
from an unwillingness to see how peer production is embedded and still
co-dependent within the capitalist system.

Huh? This is not true, absolutly not true.

They assume it is already a
means of production and will evolve in organic stages to its completion,
evacuating political and social struggle.

Instead of an "organic completion" we have always discussed in terms of
"contradictions". The most condensed form is the five step model:

I have not idea, why you are spreading such myths about Oekonux, Michel,
because you know all that. Is it an result of an oversimplification by
accident? Could you explain?


Start here:

P2P Foundation:  -

Connect:; Discuss:


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