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Re: [jox] A response to Michel Bauwens

Hi Michel and all,

Am 05.03.2012 13:59, schrieb Michel Bauwens:
this observation is based on repeated dialogue with the other Stefan, who
insisted repeatedly that neither politics nor social struggles had any
import ..

This position does not mean the absence of contradictions. But StefanMn
should reply here, not me.

How do you estimate, say, Wikispeed? Is it political? Social struggle?
What about hacking free software? Political? Struggle?

actually, even in your whole series about the aspects of peer production,
your 'beyond' series, I also got an impression that they are described
separate from their embeddedness in the overall political economy. For
example, you can say peer production is beyond labour, but at the same
time, people who have no access to income, cannot sustain such activity,
and hence there is a deep interpenetration between the continuation of peer
production projects and the need to work with for-profit enterprises ...

You are absolutely right. I had to condense over 10 years of Oekonux
development in a short (even too long) text. And you know, that I am
completely aware of the necessity to reproduce our daily lives within
the old structures. You may remenber, that we had some really serious
debates about the role of money in the process of transition, where you
took the position of creating alternative currencies, which I could
criticize as some kind of "evolutionary illusion". So I could simply
slam the ball back. From a standpoint above these positions one could
judge, that both positions represent valid aspects of the overall
contradictions we are confronted with, which necessarily emerge from
social practicies.

to my mind, you cannot discuss one without the other, and you need specific
counter-proposals and a counter-strategy


but in the years I was participating in Oekonux, I have never heard much
attention paid on such counterstrategy ... For example, take Christian
Siefkes excellent work, it is a brillant description how things could be in
an integral p2p society, but I do not get any sense of how to get from
'here' to 'there'.

Well, all we we are doing on (mainly oriented to the german
audience) as one of the Oekonux spin-offs is nothing but that: trying to
learn how we can get from here to there. And you may know: It is not
that simple.

so Stefan, certainly no evil intent, I'm just partaking of my judgment, and
I'd be happy to hear that I'm mistaken

I am happy to read that. IMHO it is more helpful to respect different
approaches (which includes criticisms) instead of out-competing the
wrong guys.


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