Message 00953 [Homepage] [Navigation]
Thread: joxT00881 Message: 76/80 L1 [In date index] [In thread index]
[First in Thread] [Last in Thread] [Date Next] [Date Prev]
[Next in Thread] [Prev in Thread] [Next Thread] [Prev Thread]

Re: [jox] A response to Michel and Jakob



Hi Hans-Gert,

I'm just preparing a workshop "sustainability and technics" to address 
such questions with two topics "environmental informatics" and 
"sustainable energy concepts". My main observation: there is a huge 
debate about "sustainability" addressing questions of our relation to 
nature (first nature in Marx' notation) and also to restructuring 
society (second nature in Marx' notation), but the in my view main 
question is almost not addressed - the requirements of the reproduction 
of the cultural-technical environment and the transition needs "after 
Fukushima", the major area where "human labour" has to be applied and 
that capitalism tries to exploit "for free", since the 
cultural-technical environment is the result of human labour. Moreover 
people like me, the MINT people (MINT = mathematics, informatics, 
natural sciences, technical sciences), have almost no voice in those 
debates. A second observation - we (the MINT people) are speaking a 
different language, that politicians hardly understand. 

We had already a similar workshop in sept 2011 with a very instructive 
basic text, that is available also in english, see 
http://www.hg-graebe.de/Texte/2011-09/Laitko-00.pdf. 

By the way, all those questions have to be answered also within 
capitalism, since they are on a nowadays schedule. But they are on a 
100..400 years time scale (as explained in Laitko's paper in detail). I 
will come back to that (a particular problem within the "limits of 
growth") in a later posting. 

Great. When and where is the workshop? In what language is it? Can I
attend it if it is in english (I don't speak German). I can also make a
presentation. I think the question of ecology lies in the heart of p2p.
I agree that these questions should be answered within capitalism too,
here and now. For example the fact that German government tries to
replace many of current polluting sources of energy with solar energy is
a good thing. But these problems cannot be solved within capitalism.
Why? Because capitalism is driven by accumulation of abstract value
(money) and indeed, there is no limit to it. If it does not increase the
scale of accumulation it will be in crisis. So the final sollution of
environmental proplems requires the end of capitalism. So green
capitalism is impossible. But this does not mean that we should not
fight for provisional sollutions within capitalism. We should fight for
ecological reforms within the capitalist system. But we need to connect
this fight for partial ecological reforms within capitalism to a
universal fight which aims at abolishing capitalism and replacing it by
a production system which is by nature ecological. And this production
is peer to peer production. 

So for you p2p is mainly a question of access ("global commons") and not

of infrastructure and reproduction (what is a "mode of production" for 
you)? 

Indeed, it also requires the macro infrastractures are transfomed to
commons too. The dsirtibution of strategic means of producticn whethe
natural (raw material and energy) or macro technical ifrastructure
(telcommunication) in the form of global commons is a requrement for
establishing of a fully fledged p2p.

All the best
Jakob




Hans-Gert Gräbe 03/22/12 9:42 AM >>> 
Hi Jakob, 

Am 14.03.2012 12:48, schrieb Jakob Rigi: 
2-, the question of making strategic-macro resources whether natural
or 
technical commons is not hypothetical issue of future. It is the most 
pressing need of our own present time. This urgency stemms in the
first 
place from the current ecological crisis. 

I'm just preparing a workshop "sustainability and technics" to address 
such questions with two topics "environmental informatics" and 
"sustainable energy concepts". My main observation: there is a huge 
debate about "sustainability" addressing questions of our relation to 
nature (first nature in Marx' notation) and also to restructuring 
society (second nature in Marx' notation), but the in my view main 
question is almost not addressed - the requirements of the reproduction 
of the cultural-technical environment and the transition needs "after 
Fukushima", the major area where "human labour" has to be applied and 
that capitalism tries to exploit "for free", since the 
cultural-technical environment is the result of human labour. Moreover 
people like me, the MINT people (MINT = mathematics, informatics, 
natural sciences, technical sciences), have almost no voice in those 
debates. A second observation - we (the MINT people) are speaking a 
different language, that politicians hardly understand. 

We had already a similar workshop in sept 2011 with a very instructive 
basic text, that is available also in english, see 
http://www.hg-graebe.de/Texte/2011-09/Laitko-00.pdf. 

By the way, all those questions have to be answered also within 
capitalism, since they are on a nowadays schedule. But they are on a 
100..400 years time scale (as explained in Laitko's paper in detail). I 
will come back to that (a particular problem within the "limits of 
growth") in a later posting. 

The fact that it is also a 
requiredment for fully feldged p2p mode of production, it shows how a 
p2p revolution is timely. I think, having a clear vision aout making 
these resources global commons is exactly part of what describe as 
having a clear vision about a fully-fledged p2p mode of production. 

So for you p2p is mainly a question of access ("global commons") and not

of infrastructure and reproduction (what is a "mode of production" for 
you)? 

hgg 

-- 

Dr. Hans-Gert Graebe, apl. Prof., Inst. Informatik, Univ. Leipzig 
postal address: Postfach 10 09 20, D-04009 Leipzig 
Hausanschrift: Johannisgasse 26, 04103 Leipzig, Raum 5-18 
tel. : +49 341 97 32248 
email: graebe informatik.uni-leipzig.de 
Home Page: http://www.informatik.uni-leipzig.de/~graebe 

______________________________ 
http://www.oekonux.org/journal


Thread: joxT00881 Message: 76/80 L1 [In date index] [In thread index]
Message 00953 [Homepage] [Navigation]