Message 00906 [Homepage] [Navigation]
Thread: joxT00881 Message: 15/89 L5 [In date index] [In thread index]
[First in Thread] [Last in Thread] [Date Next] [Date Prev]
[Next in Thread] [Prev in Thread] [Next Thread] [Prev Thread]

Re: [jox] A response to Michel and Jakob

good illustration why we have to transcend any kind "value" and
"accounting", thus "exchange" with coupled giving and taking:

Let us say we transcended the notions of value, accounting and exchange.

How do we run a city without accounting? A region? A state? How do we collect contributions, as we do in the forms of tax and money today? We ask for tax to be voluntarily donated and hope for the best?

Yet, without the day-to-day accounting (exchange dogma), how do we know the amount of wealth contributed to a person or entity/firm (expressed in money today)? OK, if it's all volunteer, we do not need to ask the known quantity (tax as percentage) from everyone. Still, if not money, what do we hope for these contributions to common funds to be?

If we drop the idea of a city budget (common funds), what do we build new infrastructure and core services with, if not with common funds and command over labour?

Once we decided we need a new hospital, or a new school, how do make sure it gets built? We wait for people to turn up, organize themselves on their own (this is not a separate set of questions since in societies with "exchange dogma" this is achieved through exchange that is accounted for and command over labour as commodity), give "unconditional voluntary contributions" in labour and hope that those who are giving their unconditional voluntary contributions towards materials necessary for the building of a new school or hospital would also contribute voluntarily materials?

All those contributing materials would also have to hope that what they need to reproduce and continue doing their work (food, energy, their raw materials) would be volunatrily contributed.

All of these contributors of labour would have to hope that food producers would also unconditional voluntary contribute to everyone - since by contributing their labour unconditionally to building of a new school or hospital, they cannot simultaneously grow food, they depend on division of labour and product of labour of others.

Perhaps i'm in minority on this list, but i can't stretch my imagination far enough to see how would above problems (developing cities, having common funds, building hospitals and schools) be addressed with peer production that depends on unconditional voluntary contributions and that rejects the use of commodities, exchange and concept of labour in totality (that is how i understood, perhaps wrongly, Pattern 1: Beyond Exchange and bunch of other linked patterns that i read). Such total rejection could be called p2p dogmatism.

This, of course, is a just small subset of problems that would have to be solved to give us a system that can be postcapitalistic while maintaining the high level of social and productive development.


Thread: joxT00881 Message: 15/89 L5 [In date index] [In thread index]
Message 00906 [Homepage] [Navigation]