Re: [jox] p2p and market
- From: Michel Bauwens <michel p2pfoundation.net>
- Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2012 11:55:58 +0700
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I've lost you on the punishment thing?
who exactly was I proposing to punish ... seems to me you misunderstood
something vital in the previous communication, I don't even recall that
theme coming up
distributed empire, as in Negri?Hardt's Empire, is a global system where
power is distributed and not easily located in any simple way. Typically in
Empire, it's a global system of financial,military,civl power, no longer
localizable in any westphalian state
the fact that financial powers are obliging the nominally powerful EU to
apply slash and burn policies in Greece is a case in point
there is nothing particular militant about using allies/enemies ... it's a
reality for everyone in politics, and I'm sure, in personal life, unless
you are so lucky to have no one at all that is hostile to you; in that
case, you are a very lucky man
so enemies/allies is just a factual recognition that if you are involved in
social change, some people/forces will support it, others will oppose it;
and most often this is indeed contextual; you may appreciate the concern of
disttributism to distribute power and property amongst everyone in society,
while not agree with their stand on homosexual marriage, to use just one
example
I will make the strong hypothetis here that almost no one agrees 100% with
anyone esle, and so these considerations are always operative
the real question is, how do you seek and achieve common ground ... my own
take on this is the construction of a grand alliance of the commons, as
something that can potentially unite a very large number of people, and so,
to use the old gramscian language, to achieve a new 'hegemony' that can
replaced the defeat and destruction of the old hegemony of labour movements
On Sun, Apr 1, 2012 at 12:26 AM, Hans-Gert Gräbe <hgg hg-graebe.de> wrote:
Hi Michel,
Am 30.03.2012 12:02, schrieb Michel Bauwens:
The "enemy" is present also in your mailings, so your point needs more
explanation. Do we need a story about "an enemy" at all and if, what is
an
"imaginary enemy" compared to a "real (?) one"? Since, as far as I
understand the story, no one has seen "the enemy" personally?
that is the problem in a distributed Empire isn't it .. .it's a system, a
structure, and we all have our place in it ... so perhaps, enemies and
allies are more contextual?
I have no idea what you are about. What is "a distributed Empire"? My
point of no understanding was, that on the one hand you punish and on the
other hand use a quite militant wording (about "enemies").
I can well imagine that out there "it's a system, a structure, and we all
have our place in it", although I think, it is a developing system, a
permanently changing structure, so "have our place in it" is in my story
tellings not the right way to explain that embedding. See my remarks on the
11th Feuerbach thesis earlier on this list.
Now, to explain your story about "enemies" you bring into the talk the
"allies". I well understand that people and structures are out there where
it is good to get in contact with to raise synergies - if getting together
is more than the sum of the parts - and out there are peoples and
structures where that will not be the case, so it is not interesting (in
the very restricted sense of "Selbstentfaltung") to get in contact with
them - but "enemies"?
What do you mean with "more contextual"? In one context those are
"enemies" and these are "allies" and in another context in the opposite?
Yes, this happens quite often, in particular in hierarchical contexts, that
people who seem to be "enemies" in a narrow context are identified as
allies (in the just specified sense) in a wider context. It is one of the
core Marxian (and Hegelian) aims to cope with that observation - they try
to capture that using the terms "surface" and "essence" - so, indeed, I
have no idea what you are writing about ...
The more since your remark about the "imaginary enemy" was in reply to the
attempt of Christian to close here a certain branch of discussion using a
well known (to me) marxistic approach. So it has a very strong impact on
our further discussion itself ...
hgg
--
Dr. Hans-Gert Graebe, apl. Prof., Inst. Informatik, Univ. Leipzig
postal address: Postfach 10 09 20, D-04009 Leipzig
Hausanschrift: Johannisgasse 26, 04103 Leipzig, Raum 5-18
tel. : +49 341 97 32248
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Home Page: http://www.informatik.uni-**leipzig.de/~graebe<http://www.informatik.uni-leipzig.de/%7Egraebe>
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