Message 00770 [Homepage] [Navigation]
Thread: joxT00615 Message: 56/65 L17 [In date index] [In thread index]
[First in Thread] [Last in Thread] [Date Next] [Date Prev]
[Next in Thread] [Prev in Thread] [Next Thread] [Prev Thread]

Re: Ridiculous arguments (was: [jox] Journal report - 19 August 2011)

[Converted from multipart/alternative]

[1 text/plain]
I already indicated that I was very happy to stop this exchange.

I will just remind people that it started with a remark about the
'dangerous' positions of the P2P Foundation, (which is an open and pluralist
platform and therefore interested in the debate about the redesign of the
monetary system and the social production of money), in the context of
indicating that this was not appropriate subject matter.

This is not for Stefan to decide a priori, and I brought up the previous
incidents to put it into the context of a serial attempt to impose

All the rest is indeed reactive, but it is sometimes difficult to stay
silent when one is accused of lies, even though the documentary record says
otherwise (that matter is now settled, thanks Mathieu).

For the record, I appreciate Stefan's ongoing work on Oekonux, a true
pioneering effort, and the conference where we all met (by the way, it seems
forgotten but it was co-organized by the P2P Foundation as well).

I have personally no desire to exclude Stefan out of anything, and having
not been very active in CSPP, not in any position to do so.

However, I do hope that Stefan will respect pluralism in the future and
refrain from unsubstantiated charges of antisemitism, which is a very
serious charge in the current context, almost an invitation for a witchhunt.

Stefan will be hopefully more aware of the consequences of such accusations,
not just on the people he accuses, but on himself and the group he has

This is the last thing I will say about it.


On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 7:30 PM, Mathieu ONeil <mathieu.oneil>wrote:

[Converted from multipart/alternative]

[1 text/plain]
Hi Athina, all

First, welcome to the fiftieth subscriber to this list, who just signed up!

Second, sorry about the heat but IMHO this has now gone beyond a private

Obviously Stefan Merten has contributed enormously to the project - by
organising the Oekonux conference at which some of us met, which led to my
putting my hand up as editor of this journal; and by setting up the website.
But since March(?) of this year he decided to step back because of
disagreement over the publication process. It now appears he is
disillusioned with the journal (a "dead horse" in his own words) yet insists
on enforcing rigid definitions of appropriate content. In addition he has
engaged in the following:

-inflammatory language (see previous messages to Michel or me)
-unfounded accusations (I am apparently engaging in backdoor machinations
to "fight the spirit of Oekonux" - whatever that is)
-blatant lying (cf. "I never attacked anyone for being an antisemite" - oh
yeah, whats this?)
-insistence on process issues (should the journal list be used for this or
that? my view is, the people on the list can use the list however they see
fit without referring to some "charter")
-so it all ends being about him - his views, his difficult behaviour - will
he answer message x, y, z, and when? -, how we should deal with the fact he
doesn't seem to _get it_
when several people (me, Christian, Michel) try to explain that there is
 not one orthodoxy here, that multiple POVs are allowed. Someone who wanted
to engage in amateur psychology might say he appears to be - subconsciously?
- "trolling" the
project he helped create, like a child who can't get his chosen toy and
decides to
spoil the party.

The question is, should we continue to put up with this? Only Michel and I
have stood up to the bullying. Should others say what they think? The sad
thing is, Stefan has a uniquely central role to play in this project because
of his knowledge about peer production and his technical skills - there are
lots of things that need to be done to the website for example - but his
insistence on one orthodoxy and his abrasive behaviour make it very hard to
work with him...



On 09/06/11, Athina Karatzogianni  <athina.k> wrote:
[Converted from multipart/alternative]

[1 text/plain]
Dear Mathieu, Stefan, and I ll include here Michel as well because of the
other discussion currently unfolding.

May I suggest that the interpersonal issues that you may have are
in private and not on the list in such a public way, which really is not
appropriate. As an outsider I can tell you that it just makes a bizarre
and we could all do without the accelerated affect usually accompanying
emails of this nature, and get on with the projects at hand. Whatever
you may have between you it is really not of interest here and they do
diminish the contributions you have made in your respective projects. I
think lets see more of that and less of this.

I hope my intervention is taken as intended.

Lets get over all this, we all have more things in common than not.


On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 6:28 AM, Mathieu ONeil <mathieu.oneil

[Converted from multipart/alternative]

[1 text/plain]
Hi Stefan

I understand you are probably still upset that the publication / peer
process is not  more distributed or transparent. If there is a way for
people to post for examples reviews and remain 100% anonymous, fine. If
want to experiment with ways to do that that do not affect the
work, fine.


I have consistently tried to offer you a platform to _say what you
I fail to see how this is "building strawmen".
I have consistently tried to achieve consensus from the community.
I have consistently encouraged all to express themselves freely.
I have consistently tried to be as fair and open as possible, both on

I dare you to bring up any issue that contradicts this.

If there is anything _real_ or _concrete_ that you want to raise, go
ahead. But if all you want to do is vent your spleen at things not
exactly how you want, then I would request that you maintain these
where they belong, in your mind, and not on this list, as they are _not
helping_. This is causing me stress and anxiety and I am tired of it.

Some of the statements below are bordering on the pathological. What
have I
done "behind the scenes"? I merely pointed out that only StefanMz had
supported your position - that is the _reality_ of what happened. How
this "setting up parties"? What "other stuff" do you mean? This is
name-calling and bullying.


Thanks for the offer but after building up strawmen and front lines
above this sounds somewhat strange...

Mathieu, this project started after the fourth Oekonux Conference and
I understood that it's goal is to keep this spirit. My impression is
that you are fighting this spirit behind the scenes - like with
setting up parties and using ridiculous arguments like above but also
with other stuff.

Mathieu, if you want to make CSPP (or how you are going to call it
tomorrow) something which contradicts Oekonux then this is your
decision I have to respect. From a few seasoned leftists during all
these years I heard things like "Oekonux is something which restores
hope - *although* it is not the same old stuff!". In fact this is why
I like Oekonux and it's spirit. If you want to move this project to
the same old, same old then you should make this clear ASAP. Then
everyone here can make a decision on how to proceed. BTW: A mixture
same old and new open-mindedness seems stupid to me because it
serve anybody really.



Dr Mathieu O'Neil
Adjunct Research Fellow
Australian Demographic and Social Research Institute
College of Arts and Social Science
The Australian National University
email: mathieu.oneil[at]

[2 text/html]

Dr Athina Karatzogianni<,_culture_and_society/staff/karatzogianni,_dr_athina.aspx

Lecturer in Media, Culture and Society
Faculty of Arts and Social Sciences
The University of Hull
United Kingdom
T: ++44 (0) 1482 46 5790
F: ++44 (0) 1482 466107
E: a.karatzogianni

Download my work for free here:

[2 text/html]

Dr Mathieu O'Neil
Adjunct Research Fellow
Australian Demographic and Social Research Institute
College of Arts and Social Science
The Australian National University
email: mathieu.oneil[at]

[2 text/html]

P2P Foundation:  -

Connect:; Discuss:


[2 text/html]


Thread: joxT00615 Message: 56/65 L17 [In date index] [In thread index]
Message 00770 [Homepage] [Navigation]